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Omar Khayyam - the medieval Wonder- lusty? Or only singer of love and wine???
dears,
I am new bee among 50s+ trvlrs.
My friend Halima strongly recommended the group to me
I 'm interested to know your thoughts on Omar Khayyam. Who was/is He: the medieval Wonder- lusty?
Or only singer of love and wine???
Davrona
salom Dinora,
I see that now you are Davrona?!
@"My friend Halima strongly recommended the group to me.. bcs, ALL PROFESSORS are here!!
hi Davrona,
I assume that Omar Khayyam was not only the medieval Wonder- lusty but Wanderer- lusty too,
Halima
I had never heard of Omar Khayyam (shame on me) but my son, Charlie, who is studying mathematics knew all about him...and as a medieval wonder not as a singer of love and wine! He knew him as being a key mathematician who developed algebraic mathematics - though Al-Kwarizmi is recognised it's original inventor. Al-Kwarizmi developed the numerical base of 10 but also wrote: "The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing" and his theories changed mathematics forever. Two of the words in the Arabic title are al-jabr, from the English word algebra is derived. It is the symbolic language on which much of higher mathematics is based.
Persia has made a key contributions to science and mathematics. It is a truly fascinating culture and region.
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Definitely, Tim, it will be my honor to meet you in my country. Not so much people knows that Omar Khayyam received eduction in Samarkand and Bukhara, but you are among this tiny company.
Dinora,Tim,
"We are no other than a moving row
Of Magic Shadow--shapes that come and go
Round with the Sun-illumined Lantern held,
In Midnight by the Master of the Show."
Halima
Dinora-Davrona,
Imagine that:
Just now my friend is citing me on Skype from so FAR Ohio:
"Разве воду ты пил,
когда жаждой страдал?
Ты ль, мой свет, не любил?
Гурий ты ль не ласкал?
О, Хайям, что сравнится
со славой твоей?
Цель сама Вас достигла"!!!
O Царь из царей!"
Halima
Russian to English translation
"Is the water you drink,
when the thirst for suffering?
You're my only weapon, my light, not like?
Guri you eh not caress?
Oh, Khayyam, which compares
with the glory of your own?
Goal itself you reach "!
O King of Kings! "
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We read selections from the "Rubaiyaat" in high school, I think. Or was it in my father's high school literature book.
There is another author of an asian or turkish name, but he turns out to be an englishman. Who is it? No quiz, I can't remember.
"And that inverted bowl, whereunder
crawling, coop'd, we live and die-
lift not your hands to IT, for help-
for it as impotently moves as you, or I."
"The moving finger writes
and having writ, moves on-
not all your piety, or wit-
shall lure it back to cancel half a line;
nor all your tears wipe out a word of it!
(swallow) I had an awful time memorizing poetry, but when I finally got it, I kept it!
Zounds!
And now I go back and find Arlette's post...I think I got it right!
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Maybe I have gotten confused between the author and the translator, Edward Fitzgerald.
What ever- the verse is grand, marvelous. Does he have some concerning love and seduction? My first time invited into my future wife's home she brought out some purty hot stuff by SOME mid-eastern or asian writer.
I should remember, wouldn't you think?
(Gasp) I think we have an EXTREMELY talented new poster!
Omar Khayyam understood very well that:
1 is less than 2, 2 is less than 3... therefore He spoke all 3 languages:Arabic,Persian and Turkish..
Omar Khayyam was Always Optimistic:
Yet Ah,Spring should vanish with the Rose!
That Youth'sweet--scented manuscript should Close!
The Nightingale that in the branches sang,
Ah whence,and whither flown again,who knows!
Halima
dears is this HE?!
Omar Khayyam
sheyda2007 youtube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzQBnHohOyk
Omar Khayyam, A Lover in Heat
sheyda2007 youtube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAh-HK46C7Y
Omar Khayyam Feed me with wine
sheyda2007 youtube.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx_-nyQV6OY
Halima
I wish I had known sooner Khayyam is/was from Samarkand...
I listened to your U-tube links, Halima, good stuff!
Dears!
Looks like Halima was right and I may share my motive/ stimulus for this Post.
With you, 50+trvlrs only!
The deal is that I found a manuscript in Bukhara, and this is not a book in pure sence of the word, but rather letter exchange between man whose name was Omar, and some girl whom he called Davrona.
The manuscript is in old Uzbek, so I will try to translate it in English, but you, my dearest 50+ community (pls-pls!!!) forgive me my omissions and ... try to assist :)))).
I believe, that Omar Khayyam's part we may found @ books_ web pages. But... no chance for Davrona"s poetry/ for her responds.
Honestly and cordially
Dinora_Davrona
DEAR, DEAR DARRELL,
@"I wish I had known sooner Khayyam is/was from Samarkand"...
therefore, YOU must RETURN to Uzbekistan!!
The trains to SAMARKAND as USUALLY take off very early in the morning,the hospitable Uzbek drivers are ready to bring You to where you wish , Nice Multicultural Uzbek girls as excursion guides are waiting for submersion into that medieval epoch,
Halima
"hospitable Uzbek drivers are ready to bring You to where you wish , Nice Multicultural Uzbek girls as excursion guides are waiting for submersion into that medieval"
LOL, you make it sound really, rally good!
Tim
I SO agree!
Cherie
dear Dinora-Davrona!!
What a Quick startup!
"Would you that spangle of Existence spend
About The Secret-quick about it,Friend!
A HAIR perhaps divides the False and True-
And upon what,prithee,may Life depend?"
Halima
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"A HAIR perhaps divides the False and True-"
Not so. The author seems doubtful or confused, but I am not. Truth (with a capital T) is opposite falsity. White vs. black. They are far removed from each other.
I admit humans may have difficulty sometimes telling the difference.
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Ms. C. Kelly, it is indeed an honor to be allowed to engage with such a subtle mind. I fear I am opening a can of worms here- I merely meant there is an objective reality we may, but often not, be able to comprehend.
The Truth is still there, even if I, or we are oblivious to it. The mathemation- or geometer- posits a line having only one dimension. NO one can see this line, it has no width, no thickness! It exists only in the imagination. With this and other ideas, amazing things can be accomplished.
Curious that Khayyam was a mathematician.
With the beautiful, elegant solution E=Mc-to the second power, Einstein discovers a Truth that must be a basic building block of the universe. Interesting that when Einstein confronted Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, he said "God does not play DICE with th universe!" (You can virtualy hear his indignation.)
Millay wrote "Only the Mathematician has Gazed on Beauty, Bare!"
( http://literatureandscience.research.glam.ac.uk/media/files/documents/2009-09-30/JLS2.1ChiassonRogersPDF.pdf)
I didn't get it quite right-
Euclid alone has looked on Beauty bare.
Let all who prate of Beauty hold their peace,
And lay them prone upon the earth and cease
To ponder on themselves, the while they stare
At nothing, intricately drawn nowhere
In shapes of shifting lineage; let geese
Gabble and hiss, but heroes seek release
From dusty bondage into luminous air.
O blinding hour, O holy, terrible day,
When first the shaft into his vision shone
Of light anatomized! Euclid alone
Has looked on Beauty bare. Fortunate they
Who, though once only and then but far away,
Have heard her massive sandal set on stone. (74)
Eikenberry, blathering on...
Master of the Show."
Bless me!
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Good evening dear Dinora-Davrona opa!The theme U've chosen is very interesting and despite being a newcomer,i've tried to make some additions..
Вопросами бытия и смысла, которыми задаётся в
своих четверостишиях Хайям, задавались многие как до
него, так и столетия после него. Их неизменность и
сложность, доводящая до отчаяния невозможность ответить
на многие из них однозначно, как ничто другое доказывают
их непреходящую ценность и значимость.
В рубаи Хайяма сквозь строки проглядывает
обычный человек, то ропщущий на судьбу и небо, то
теряющий жизненный ориентир и пускающийся «во все
тяжкие», то разочаровывающийся, то опять ищущий
смысла… Поэт так противоречив и так неоднозначен, что
попытайся кто-нибудь проанализировать все его рубаи и
составить «рецепт жизненного счастья», он непременно
потерпел бы крах. Подгонять Хайяма под определение
безбожника, распутника и пьяницы так же неверно, как
видеть в нем только мистика, отождествляющего любовь к
женщинам и вину с любовью к Богу. Возможно, именно
поэтому рубаи Хайяма так подвержены
интерпретированию. Возможно, именно поэтому
существует так много переводов его четверостиший,
подчас расходящихся по смыслу диаметрально…
Нусхаи асл:
Ман бода хўрам, валек мастї накунам,
Илло ба ќадањ дароздастї накунам.
Донї, ѓаразам зи майпарастї чї бувад?
То ман чу ту хештанпарастї накунам.
Тарумањои пешин:
Пью с умом: никогда не буяню спьяна,
Жадно пью: я не жаден, но жажда сильна.
Ты святоша и трезвенник, занят собою –
Я себя забываю, напившись вина!
Г.Плисетский
salom Nigora,
so nice to see your post here!
dears,I assume that we have here the real Mushoira,
not the contest of Writers but Poetry Lovers..
"A Moment's halt--a momentary taste
Of Being from the well amid the Waste--
And Lo!--the phantom Caravan has reach'd
the Nothing it set out from--Oh,make haste!"
Halima
Dears 50+ trvlrs!
Dear Youngsters!
Katt (+son Charlie), Arlette, Tim, dearest Darrell (wonderful translation!!!), Kelly, Nigora, Halima, Yakk, Philipp, i. e. everybody participated in post discussion.
So, pls, listen my story as remember: I need your advice! Urgently...
This summer I was involved in drafting the project for crafts’ development of in Samarkand and Bukhara. The project dropped from one international organization; to our surprise, besides oil and gas, this one was interested in crafts.
The most difficult technical problem we face in attempts to find a building for a museum of folk crafts: we had to choose traditionally constructed house typical for medieval Bukhara, organically "incorporated" in Mahalla, somewhere not far from city center.
First ten houses for sale found in the newspapers’ ads, did not fit expectations - buildings were defaced by frequent repairs beyond recognition. Few days later passing along a narrow Mahalla where could hardly pass only one narrow car, we noted an ad, just hung out in a little uneven window: "the haus is on sail”. Paper on which the curves in large letters of these "magic words" were written was of some unknown format. Rather square than rectangular, it was dimly gleamed with some fibers. My heart sank awkwardly: yeah, is it possible that this piece belongs to famous "silk" paper, whose production technology came from China @ eleventh century, passed later from here - to Europe? Isn’t this paper - piece of "Samarkandi"?
"Polite" knocking at the door gave nothing, as well as repeated loud. Finally, smiling girl appeared at the step, inviting me to enter.
dears,
pls, find her thoughts on one and zero and the rest in between:
Век – один, жизнь – одна,
Два истока, два рода – отец твой и мать,
Детство, юность и зрелость - периода три.
Старость? - Старости нет
Не поедет арба
Если нету колес,
Все четыре нужны
Ровно столько дорог
Перекресток несет.
Пальцев – пять, только пять
Океанов, красивейших в мире озер.
На шесть разных частей
Поделен этот свет,
Семь небес, семь чудес, семь нот у октав,
И у радуги, помнишь, цветов было семь?
В восемь твой караван отправляется в путь,
Торопись¸ поспеши, никого не забудь!
Ну а вечером в восемь вернешься к шатру
Будет полог открыт, трепеща на ветру
И очаг разгорится в жилище твоем,
И наполнится звуком и смыслом твой дом.
В девять – жди: на порядок изменится счет,
Ноль – и радость несет, и заботу несет.
Dinora -Davrona opa!The thoughts on one and zero ...Here the life is shown..The thinly chosen philosophy on the beginning and the end of existance,of life is invoking to think over what is the aim of living,how do we live,what do we have while living ,how should we live.. every mentioned above life proceedings are so nicely pointed by counting calling on to analyze OUR LIFE!
Thank You for shareing.
Nigora
dears,
just to share this interesting idea..
at the time of Caesar only one line:
"Prishel,Uvidel,Pobedil"...
later 2 lines,
later 3 lines...
later "rubaï" poems =4 line verses ,"quatrains "...
Halima
Dear life travelers, dear nomads of 21 C!
Who, if not we remember Khayyam – the greatest traveler, who live exactly millenium ago, only one millennium before us?
What was value of mankind that time? I believe, Khayyam tried to respond, and one may hear denial of approval, and approval of denial in his Rubays.
I tried to translate last verse (will be grateful for critical notes, considering this as adding value)…
Time is one, luck is one, life is one,
Bloods and origins - two
Of your Mother and Pa
Childhood, youth and manhood
Life spaces are three.
Vale of years? –
No way, no vale, no exit to go
How can run you cart
If the cart hasn’t wheels?
Each of four we will need
And thus many roads
Carries every crossroad.
Fingers – five on your hand;
And so many oceans, five beautiful lakes
Hold this Planet.
Into six certain parts is divided this world
Seven heavens, and wonders, and notes in octave;
And a rainbow, remember, consist from thus colors?
At the eight caravans will be hitting the trails,
Hurry up¸ haste, keep: no man to forget!
In the evening at eight you come back to the place
Let it go, wing flattering leafs cover tent, please, just let!
And the fireplace’ll flair up at douar, and thus
Meaning, sounds invade in
Your house and heart
However, @ nine – do expect:
By the order Allah changing score
Zero brings you a joy, but it care a woe
Dear Darrell, dear Cadence, dear Tim, Atlette, Yak, my compatriots, the entire 50+ team.
I have head that Isadora Duncan loved to dance on Omar Khayyam poetry. She was famous American dancer, may be the best @ 20 Century. She was also first owner is Isadora cosmetics firm, which is prospering now. Do you know is there video of Isadora dancing with Omar verses?
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salom David,
the same is written in almost all Russian book
@As she took her seat in the car neither she nor the driver noticed that one of the loose ends fell outside over the side of the car and was caught in the rear wheel of the machine"..
hi David,
May be then something inspiring about her love to/for Sergei Esenin,the Great Russian Poet?
Halima
Isadora Duncan was famous (and odd) in a great many ways...
quite scandalous in the dance for her time- paid no attention to the conventions.
there is one,
Сергей Есенин и Isadora Duncan - Видео 1922 год
Sergey Esenin and Isadora Duncan..video of 1922
- 14 сек. - 10 авг 2009 - Добавлено пользователем pacctalom
молодожены Есенин и Дункан на пароходе, по прибытии в Нью Йорк в октябре 1922 года. Кадры кинохроники. Скорость воспроизведения приближена к реальности.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAL5eKjQgMQ
Halima
I've watched these:
C.Есенин и А. Дункан в Америке
neznayunepomnyu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al6YmTGZZFU&feature=related
Isadora Duncan
ValeBjork http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKtQWU2ifOs&feature=related
Robert Calvert & Pete Pavli - Isadora (mashup)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NGcXQc8bl4&feature=watch_response
JephraimToe
From The Revenge Demos (1981)
The song is about Isadora Duncan, the 'mother of modern dance'. She was the main influence for Hawkwind's Stacia, among many others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isadora_...
http://www.youtube.com/user/JephraimToe
Halima
Have you head of Isadora's "Knifes' dance"? She was snaking and jumping between sharp knifes under Omar Khayyam Rubaiyat with Eastern melody...
Extremely dangerous performance. I wish to see that dance...
Don't know that one. I have led a very sheltered existance. No dancing. (grin) All I know about it is from the encyclopedia.
Halima?
salom Darrell,
@for Yours Halima? I guess only:How managed she to make S.Esenin her lover,at the time when almost all young girls and ladies were fallen in love with/in him, and she being twice elder that he...
Hi Darrell,
have You heard this verse of S, Esenin:
Shagane, moya Shagane..?
Halima
Salom Halima
No, tell me.
Shahine, you are mine Shahine,
or Shohinam, sen meni Shohinam,
mean "O. my Queen,o my Queen!"
found another one!
Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went."
Welcome Dinora. I'm not familiar with Khayyam. I'll have to follow some of the links, and learn about him.
Dear Nancy! Sorry for responding you so late - I was in India, participating @ the World Gathering of Women Pastoralists, in Gujarat, travelling through all over the province.
Nancy, travelling from Canada to Korea you cover half of the planet, & even the entire planet during your round trip. If you will point your finger somewhere in the middle of your road - you will find it either in Iraq, or in Central Asia, where Samarkand & Bukhara - the best places to go. I think, Omar Khayyam, who travel entire live, deserve interest of such a "spicy" personalities as 50+ @ couchsurfing.
Можно ли быть в согласии с самим собой и дружить с массами?Да!Опирайтесь на мудрость ОмараХайяма!!!
http://davrona.livejournal.com/
Halima
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This is Davrona's weblog, is it Halima? Is she home in Tashkent?
I think you interpret it right, Tim- Khayyam uses more...lusty words, which Dilnora remarked at top of thread. Uzbekistan is "hotter than hot".
Are you going, Tim?
DARREL,
yes,this is her blog,
she is my dearest friend and yesterday she visited me after staying about 6 months abroad.
Halima
Hi, Halima
tell her to post to us more often. I would be interested in her thoughts about where-ever she travels.
DARRELL,
A HAPPY NEW YEAR for YOU and ALL YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS!
Be Healthy, Wealthy and Happy!
HI DARRELL,
Are you at Twitter? Dilnora's name at Twitter is:
@Omar_Davrona
I just tweeted to her.
Halima
Oh, I don't like twitter so much. I have not been back since that day we exchanged several messages.
And a happy new year for you right back. "Healthy, wealthy and wise", as Ben Franklin said.
This was a most satisfying thread, to me. I hope you all know that.
DARRELL,
@"Healthy, wealthy and wise", as Ben Franklin said.
Just now I've received this message:
Dear Friends!!!
Like the seven colors of a rainbow, may your life be painted with the colors of
Love,
care,
warmth,
affection,
trust,
friendship
and joy.
Cheers.
Happy new year.!
Iroda.
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YakYakCoucher - I too, have the problem of having only one side of my brain working. My doctor was worried about an inverted eardrum and I told her that my two brothers received ALL of the math genes in the family. The left side of my brain was actually a vacuum so it stood to reason that the pressure difference between the inside of my head and the outside world offered a correct diagnosis. She just looked at me.:)
I'm not surprised that Khayyam was a mathematician though I didn't know that fact about him. I, even as a vacuum head, believe that everything in existence is comprised of mathematical equations. We're all strings and harmonics with Quantum Physics thrown in to explain the unexplainable which is why we can or can't find Schroedinger's Cat.
It's so confusing that it becomes logical and evolves in to poetry and the language of the heart.
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Guess: it's about us?
Cherie
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yes,U're right))Halima opa is a very "Baedeker" for me(think that Dinora opa also thinks so).Despite being young,hope to share with my country's rich history,culture just Uzbek life with U all!Want to believe that I'll be usefull in helping to know more about our country at least bcs of having chip being an Uzbek))Thank U all!
sincerely,
Nigora
Thank You Tim, for a warm welcoming!
Nigora
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hi Davrona,where are you lost?
heard that you published a book dedicated to Omar Khayyam Rubaiyat?
Halima
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hi grood,
you ...and a new bee?!
I cannot imagine our 50s+ Travellers without you ,without your really making laugh posts/comments ... ! and your jokes are For All Ages! I know Australia thank to you and other Osies...
Halima
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Dear Grood, welcome to Uzbekistan! Interesting, that your decision to travel to Central Asian core country started from our talk about Omar Khayyam, who was and who is the first among first poets. He came to Central Asia from Persia, settling in Samarkand, then moved to Bukhara, where he spent 10 years of his life. Khayyam returned back home when he approached to the age of Jesus Christ. You may read and learn all these in my book, finding via search engines by typing Dialogs with Omar Khayyam (the name of the book) or author (Davrona – my nickname).
Hi DINORA,
I've heard that your book is sold via/in amazon.
Could you, please,post some links?
I am hosting some CS and would like to recommend some very Asian gifts...
Halima
Dear Halima, I ‘m inspired by your brilliant technic and acknowledgement of new IT opportunities: you are diving in scoop, vimeo, google+. And I’m also trying )) Please, do visit my scoop page here
http://www.scoop.it/t/poetry-will-save-our-fragile-and-vulnerable-world
Davrona
Dinora,
How sad that Your Book is in Russian.Hope that you would prepare #podcast in English! We invite you to @tesol #evo2013 trainings 2 Learn skills needed for that!
Halima
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