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Posted February 13th, 2013 - 10:43 am by 
from Paris, France (Permalink)
from Paris, France (Permalink)"www.onecouchatatime.com - yea, that's me."
Hi Alex. You have a lot of nerve. I have flagged your post as commercial spam. Nice try, though...
Hi Alex. You have a lot of nerve. I have flagged your post as commercial spam. Nice try, though...
Posted February 13th, 2013 - 11:20 am by 
from London, England (Permalink)
from London, England (Permalink)For me, the problems are inextricably bound up with the for-profit switch. That's what obliges CS to change the UI, to move away from the core hospitality element, and so on: to attract maximum, low-quality traffic.
Any 'patch' we could suggest here won't be taken seriously by the staff because it would conflict with their ultimate aim: that's why they just got rid of the sticky 'community details' in different place pages even though they had managed to alleviate some of the worst problems with place pages (and notwithstanding the dismay of everyone on Ambs Public).
In other words, the problems are too deep-rooted to fix by this kind of initiative. Now I haven't seen your movie, Alexandra, but I'm going to guess you didn't ask Fenton any tough questions about his sellout.
Any 'patch' we could suggest here won't be taken seriously by the staff because it would conflict with their ultimate aim: that's why they just got rid of the sticky 'community details' in different place pages even though they had managed to alleviate some of the worst problems with place pages (and notwithstanding the dismay of everyone on Ambs Public).
In other words, the problems are too deep-rooted to fix by this kind of initiative. Now I haven't seen your movie, Alexandra, but I'm going to guess you didn't ask Fenton any tough questions about his sellout.
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Posted February 13th, 2013 - 12:13 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
from Paris, France (Permalink)Oh Alexandra, nice try again. If we were on any team together I suppose I'd be aware of it. We are not, and we do not share any common basic values. I have seen more than enough of your spam and other posts not to have any interest in spending time with you.
If you don't want to dicuss your film, why did you sign your post with a link to your commercial website where you sell your product, in violation of the CS terms of use?
If you don't want to dicuss your film, why did you sign your post with a link to your commercial website where you sell your product, in violation of the CS terms of use?
Posted February 13th, 2013 - 12:40 pm by from London, England (Permalink)
from London, England (Permalink)hahah - well, I'll sidestep the Alexandra Liss - Polyglot fight for a moment to focus on broader questions,for one reason: because I think that Alex's starting point is a common misconception on CS: that all the problems in CS now stem from either lack of competence on behalf of HQ, lack of knowledge or experience with the community, or the fact that Fenton has been pushed out. In fact, as I said above, I think that the for-profit switch made all these problems inevitable, and that Fenton is most to blame.
To answer Alex's last message to me:
"I think it is possible to make a profit and still be a socially aware business..."
That may or may not be true generally, but not in the case of hospex I think. CS was all about finding ways to do things cheaper or for free: hospitality, activities etc: based on altruism. If I don't receive a financial reward for opening up my home to you, then I get rewarded in other ways - gratitude, cultural exchange, couches for myself later on, etc. It's very difficult to find a way to really profit out of a community that's about avoiding financial exchange. That's why Tony Espinoza claims that the real engagement in CS is meetups (often in bars or restaurants which offer opportunities for commercial tie-ups) not hosting.
"You are saying that the Terms of Use is meant to attract low quality traffic? How do you figure?"
No - the place pages are meant to attract low quality traffic. That's why they are searchable via google, and why they have been centralised (not decentralised as you claim) around big-city hubs, with all the conversations from smaller towns etc pushed into the one page. The aim is, so far as I can see, to have a smaller set of high-traffic sites which can be used to market commercial deals, tie-ups for partners, etc. The terms of use come in at the point where all the data provided by new sign-ups can be used, sold on, etc.
"In San francisco alone, there are almost 10,000 conversations posted, mostly filled with CouchSurfers more consistently "asking for something/help”"
Yes, this is why I don't really understand why this is sustainable. If no-one replies to these conversations, then surely eventually post rates and traffic will drop away. However, admin have constantly refused all requests to roll-back to the pre-place pages group system - the obvious solution - which tells me there must be some financial motive for remaining as we are.
"Places should become a centralized Community Board based on location (similar to the old Group Board) but better! This would replace Conversations and also have a place for activities based on location as well. "
What you suggest is more or less what some cities had achieved with the 'community details'. London, Paris etc had large sticky guidelines forbidding couch requests in conversations. Hong Kong, as well as I think New York and other cities, had posts advertising newly created city groups which more or less played the same function as the old groups and were becoming quite popular. So, the logical conclusion would be to encourage that, no? But Then admin deleted the community details, for quite spurious reasons IMO, including the suggestion that they were 'unwelcoming to new members'.
I suspect the reason is that they didn't want to forbid Couch Requests on conversations (as they are an easy way for people to try and get hosted without taking the time to understand the site or community) and they didn't want other groups taking traffic away from the place pages. The place pages are clearly an integral part of their business plan.
This is what I mean by the fact that the for-profit drive renders well-meaning attempts by users to fix these kinds of community problems useless. The kind of community we used to have just wasn't and could never be profitable - in the ways that the investors want.
"As far as my film, I made the film BEFORE all these changes, so to be honest, I made it about a different CS"
You made it before the changes to the website, but the for-profit direction was announced in summer 2011. That's the place to start looking if you really want to understand why things have gone wrong now.
To answer Alex's last message to me:
"I think it is possible to make a profit and still be a socially aware business..."
That may or may not be true generally, but not in the case of hospex I think. CS was all about finding ways to do things cheaper or for free: hospitality, activities etc: based on altruism. If I don't receive a financial reward for opening up my home to you, then I get rewarded in other ways - gratitude, cultural exchange, couches for myself later on, etc. It's very difficult to find a way to really profit out of a community that's about avoiding financial exchange. That's why Tony Espinoza claims that the real engagement in CS is meetups (often in bars or restaurants which offer opportunities for commercial tie-ups) not hosting.
"You are saying that the Terms of Use is meant to attract low quality traffic? How do you figure?"
No - the place pages are meant to attract low quality traffic. That's why they are searchable via google, and why they have been centralised (not decentralised as you claim) around big-city hubs, with all the conversations from smaller towns etc pushed into the one page. The aim is, so far as I can see, to have a smaller set of high-traffic sites which can be used to market commercial deals, tie-ups for partners, etc. The terms of use come in at the point where all the data provided by new sign-ups can be used, sold on, etc.
"In San francisco alone, there are almost 10,000 conversations posted, mostly filled with CouchSurfers more consistently "asking for something/help”"
Yes, this is why I don't really understand why this is sustainable. If no-one replies to these conversations, then surely eventually post rates and traffic will drop away. However, admin have constantly refused all requests to roll-back to the pre-place pages group system - the obvious solution - which tells me there must be some financial motive for remaining as we are.
"Places should become a centralized Community Board based on location (similar to the old Group Board) but better! This would replace Conversations and also have a place for activities based on location as well. "
What you suggest is more or less what some cities had achieved with the 'community details'. London, Paris etc had large sticky guidelines forbidding couch requests in conversations. Hong Kong, as well as I think New York and other cities, had posts advertising newly created city groups which more or less played the same function as the old groups and were becoming quite popular. So, the logical conclusion would be to encourage that, no? But Then admin deleted the community details, for quite spurious reasons IMO, including the suggestion that they were 'unwelcoming to new members'.
I suspect the reason is that they didn't want to forbid Couch Requests on conversations (as they are an easy way for people to try and get hosted without taking the time to understand the site or community) and they didn't want other groups taking traffic away from the place pages. The place pages are clearly an integral part of their business plan.
This is what I mean by the fact that the for-profit drive renders well-meaning attempts by users to fix these kinds of community problems useless. The kind of community we used to have just wasn't and could never be profitable - in the ways that the investors want.
"As far as my film, I made the film BEFORE all these changes, so to be honest, I made it about a different CS"
You made it before the changes to the website, but the for-profit direction was announced in summer 2011. That's the place to start looking if you really want to understand why things have gone wrong now.
Post removed.
Posted February 13th, 2013 - 12:42 pm by from London, England (Permalink)
from London, England (Permalink)This post has been removed by the user.
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Posted February 13th, 2013 - 2:06 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
from Paris, France (Permalink)Alexandra Liss wrote:
"Like I said, I am looking for solution oriented interactions, not angry people who thrive on putting others down."
"Are you that dense?"
"the blatant slander and misinformation is getting really old"
"the negative reference on your page describes the exact issue I am speaking of, so obviously you have a history."
"The only person you are hurting with this paranoia and negativity if yourself."
Right. Keep outing yourself for those who didn't know the character already, and showing us whose team Miss Liss really is on.
As for the "misinformation" on what constitutes commercial spam, here are links to some of your posts regarding onecouchatatime.com which were removed by CouchSurfing in the good old days when it was a non-profit organization.
http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=3731&post=9021472
http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=5186&post=9021463
Perhaps the interpretation has changed. We'll find out soon enough.
"I dedicated the last two years of my life for free".
Seems that you have forgotten the kickstarter money ($7.955?) which CouchSurfers donated to your project, at the time presented as a documentary on "How different parts of the world do love". Problems with your memory, or with the truth?
"Like I said, I am looking for solution oriented interactions, not angry people who thrive on putting others down."
"Are you that dense?"
"the blatant slander and misinformation is getting really old"
"the negative reference on your page describes the exact issue I am speaking of, so obviously you have a history."
"The only person you are hurting with this paranoia and negativity if yourself."
Right. Keep outing yourself for those who didn't know the character already, and showing us whose team Miss Liss really is on.
As for the "misinformation" on what constitutes commercial spam, here are links to some of your posts regarding onecouchatatime.com which were removed by CouchSurfing in the good old days when it was a non-profit organization.
http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=3731&post=9021472
http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=5186&post=9021463
Perhaps the interpretation has changed. We'll find out soon enough.
"I dedicated the last two years of my life for free".
Seems that you have forgotten the kickstarter money ($7.955?) which CouchSurfers donated to your project, at the time presented as a documentary on "How different parts of the world do love". Problems with your memory, or with the truth?
Posted February 13th, 2013 - 3:10 pm by 
from Dijon, France (Permalink)
from Dijon, France (Permalink)Alexandra,
The essential problem in your analysis is that you evoke goals you find positive and seem to assume that CS management is actually in favor of these goals. While those of us aware of the history and inner workings of CS know that it is not true. And that in fact they have very actively worked, especially recently, to suppress any honest involvement by members of the CS community, destroying tools that have long existed, being transparently dishonest about their methods, plans and goals. It is impossible to participate from the inside, because even many members of the paid staff are completely unaware of the corporate goals and even of the actual structure of the business, which is guarded secret.
The essential problem in your analysis is that you evoke goals you find positive and seem to assume that CS management is actually in favor of these goals. While those of us aware of the history and inner workings of CS know that it is not true. And that in fact they have very actively worked, especially recently, to suppress any honest involvement by members of the CS community, destroying tools that have long existed, being transparently dishonest about their methods, plans and goals. It is impossible to participate from the inside, because even many members of the paid staff are completely unaware of the corporate goals and even of the actual structure of the business, which is guarded secret.
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Posted February 14th, 2013 - 4:52 am by 
from Budapest, Hungary (Permalink)
from Budapest, Hungary (Permalink)
will not screen Alexandra Liss's documentary.
Posted February 14th, 2013 - 10:02 am by from London, England (Permalink)
from London, England (Permalink)Copied from something I wrote elsewhere:
******
New CS management don't need more feedback. They get thousands of messages in their Zendesk forums, as well as lots of detailed analyses sent privately. Hell, in Ambs Public there are even people creating Greasemonkey scripts to add features to the website for free! The problem isn't that they don't know what's wrong. The problem is that their interests and the community's interests are no longer the same.
Therefore, if you want something positive and constructive to do, the best advice I can give is this: don't forget that hospitality exchange does not equal CS. There are other, better sites out there which are genuine non-profits (something I think essential to keeping the community spirit). BeWelcome for example is set up under French law, which would make a for-profit transition,as I understand it, effectively impossible: being far more strict than US law in this case. So I'd suggest you put your energy and passion into building that site instead. It's a lot more transparent and horizontally organised than CS, which has always been secretive and top-down. While I stay on CS to watch how the story will end, when it comes to actually meeting people, the alternatives now seem so much more attractive.
******
New CS management don't need more feedback. They get thousands of messages in their Zendesk forums, as well as lots of detailed analyses sent privately. Hell, in Ambs Public there are even people creating Greasemonkey scripts to add features to the website for free! The problem isn't that they don't know what's wrong. The problem is that their interests and the community's interests are no longer the same.
Therefore, if you want something positive and constructive to do, the best advice I can give is this: don't forget that hospitality exchange does not equal CS. There are other, better sites out there which are genuine non-profits (something I think essential to keeping the community spirit). BeWelcome for example is set up under French law, which would make a for-profit transition,as I understand it, effectively impossible: being far more strict than US law in this case. So I'd suggest you put your energy and passion into building that site instead. It's a lot more transparent and horizontally organised than CS, which has always been secretive and top-down. While I stay on CS to watch how the story will end, when it comes to actually meeting people, the alternatives now seem so much more attractive.
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Post removed.
Posted February 13th, 2013 - 12:39 pm by 
from San Francisco, United States (Permalink)
from San Francisco, United States (Permalink)This post has been removed by the user.
