Posted August 29th, 2011 - 4:13 pm by 
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)on last Federated Social Web summit in Berlin I've met few Drupal developers who work on adding OStatus for drupal. You can find related group here:
http://groups.drupal.org/federated-social-web
besides OStatus we could also push use of XMPP...
more on FSW on wiki page of its W3C XG:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/Main_Page
http://groups.drupal.org/federated-social-web
besides OStatus we could also push use of XMPP...
more on FSW on wiki page of its W3C XG:
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/Main_Page
Posted August 29th, 2011 - 4:16 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)oh, with D7 we can also take advantage of Semantic Web technologies like:
SIOC http://sioc-project.org/ (Semantically-Interlinked Online Communities)
FOAF http://www.foaf-project.org/ (Friend of a Friend)
and more =)
SIOC http://sioc-project.org/ (Semantically-Interlinked Online Communities)
FOAF http://www.foaf-project.org/ (Friend of a Friend)
and more =)
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Posted August 29th, 2011 - 5:06 pm by 
from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)
from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)Thank you very much for your point, Vitor!
Maybe i am missing something, but what would be the advantage of using
federated identity, Drupal and semantic web in the case of CS? The onyl thing i see is more complexity. The CS website is pretty
straightforward and a centralized version is always simpler to manage
(exception made to load distribution, but there are ea$y solutions for
that).
The problem is the (absolute) power of the administrator. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. It is sad, but we should avoid giving so much power to a small group of people.
I could imagine, though, a peer-to-peer network where a central website
would coordinate peers and the peers themselves being the website in
itself. User profiles could be (in a perfect implementation of privacy
and full control on data) on each user's computers (to start with, of
course).
I think it the same way! In a p2p-network, you need thick-clients installed on your own notebook. Therefore, it should not be only a pure p2p-network, because not all people take notebooks on their travels. That means that there should be a Webinterface, which can connect to the decetralized network of "stationary people", if you can only use an internet-cafe-browser.
Maybe i am missing something, but what would be the advantage of using
federated identity, Drupal and semantic web in the case of CS? The onyl thing i see is more complexity. The CS website is pretty
straightforward and a centralized version is always simpler to manage
(exception made to load distribution, but there are ea$y solutions for
that).
The problem is the (absolute) power of the administrator. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly. It is sad, but we should avoid giving so much power to a small group of people.
I could imagine, though, a peer-to-peer network where a central website
would coordinate peers and the peers themselves being the website in
itself. User profiles could be (in a perfect implementation of privacy
and full control on data) on each user's computers (to start with, of
course).
I think it the same way! In a p2p-network, you need thick-clients installed on your own notebook. Therefore, it should not be only a pure p2p-network, because not all people take notebooks on their travels. That means that there should be a Webinterface, which can connect to the decetralized network of "stationary people", if you can only use an internet-cafe-browser.
Posted August 29th, 2011 - 5:59 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)In federation myself I would like to put an emphasis on real personal freedom through robust portability. In a sense that one can move one's own account to a different server at any point, similarly groups could also at some point mature and migrate to independent servers.
Can one migrate an account out of CS? IMHO one's history, contributions, references etc. should belong to the person not to the service one uses. In federated design on could move to any other server while still continue to participate in networking experience.
Having local/remote accounts, groups etc. I find much greater potential for liberated interaction across online communities!
Can one migrate an account out of CS? IMHO one's history, contributions, references etc. should belong to the person not to the service one uses. In federated design on could move to any other server while still continue to participate in networking experience.
Having local/remote accounts, groups etc. I find much greater potential for liberated interaction across online communities!
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Posted August 30th, 2011 - 1:22 pm by from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)
from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)Dear Kaspar and Pavlik, thank you very much for your links.
1) I have not had to hack with Drupal yet.
2) "But this shoudl be discussed outside CS mailing lists. ;)" I totally agree with Pavlik.
The project requires fulltime careful team work of months. We should discuss, how to gather the people into this project. And I have no experience, how to manage a virtual team (geographically distributed) of programmers.
1) I have not had to hack with Drupal yet.
2) "But this shoudl be discussed outside CS mailing lists. ;)" I totally agree with Pavlik.
The project requires fulltime careful team work of months. We should discuss, how to gather the people into this project. And I have no experience, how to manage a virtual team (geographically distributed) of programmers.
Posted August 30th, 2011 - 1:26 pm by from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)
from Duesseldorf, Germany (Permalink)I do not plan to program something from scratch, but some modifications of already existent software like the content-management system Drupal is required.
Posted August 30th, 2011 - 1:36 pm by 
from Brussels, Belgium (Permalink)
from Brussels, Belgium (Permalink)I just wrote a long message just to get the Site Down Message... Maybe it's time to move this discussion elsewhere? Any suggestions, elf?
Posted August 31st, 2011 - 12:45 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)maybe here: https://n-1.cc/pg/groups/702082/hospitality-networks/
just created it if we would like to use it for this purpose, advantages:
* easy signup - OpenID
* forum has mailing list integration!!!
* basic integration with chat over XMPP MUC available at hospitality-networks@groups.n-1.cc (doesn't work ATM, I contact admins with request to fix it)
* if needed this group can have other tools enabled including wiki, etherpad, albums, blogs, tasks and many more...
* n-1.cc a biggest node in developing federated network build at this moment mostly on top of Elgg platform
* i know in person people from 'Lorea' project who run it and at some point we can work on migrating group elsewhere if desired
* folks from 'Lorea' would like to help in Drupal with their experience on adding federation to Elgg.
We can also move it elswhere but I would like to have option to reply directly from email instead of using some web interface...
just created it if we would like to use it for this purpose, advantages:
* easy signup - OpenID
* forum has mailing list integration!!!
* basic integration with chat over XMPP MUC available at hospitality-networks@groups.n-1.cc (doesn't work ATM, I contact admins with request to fix it)
* if needed this group can have other tools enabled including wiki, etherpad, albums, blogs, tasks and many more...
* n-1.cc a biggest node in developing federated network build at this moment mostly on top of Elgg platform
* i know in person people from 'Lorea' project who run it and at some point we can work on migrating group elsewhere if desired
* folks from 'Lorea' would like to help in Drupal with their experience on adding federation to Elgg.
We can also move it elswhere but I would like to have option to reply directly from email instead of using some web interface...
Posted August 31st, 2011 - 2:53 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)or maybe you could just put up a simple drupal forum with http://drupal.org/project/femail on let's say forum.couchwiki.org? we could later add XMPP chat rooms on chat.couchwiki.org and use jappix mini for webchat...
Posted August 30th, 2011 - 1:38 pm by from Brussels, Belgium (Permalink)
from Brussels, Belgium (Permalink)Drupal is very modular. Just try it, play with it, learn some of the most common modules. Start with Drupal 7.
Check which modules are interesting for decentralized networks, fix some bugs, add some features.
I and other people will continue with the migration of BeWelcome to Drupal, and once that is finished we can see which modules can be added to make it a hub in a decentralized network.
So _we_ don't need to manage a virtual team - it's better to blend into drupal.org and work there on existing or new projects. But it could be good to follow http://lists.bewelcome.org/mailman/listinfo/bw-dev-discussion :)
If there's enough interest we could also set up a list at this mailman specifically for distributed hospitality exchange, but for now I think it's good to join existing distributed social network projects and make sure there is some communication between BW and these projects. And actually, I'm trusting elf will keep me (and other BW developers) in touch with new developments :)
Check which modules are interesting for decentralized networks, fix some bugs, add some features.
I and other people will continue with the migration of BeWelcome to Drupal, and once that is finished we can see which modules can be added to make it a hub in a decentralized network.
So _we_ don't need to manage a virtual team - it's better to blend into drupal.org and work there on existing or new projects. But it could be good to follow http://lists.bewelcome.org/mailman/listinfo/bw-dev-discussion :)
If there's enough interest we could also set up a list at this mailman specifically for distributed hospitality exchange, but for now I think it's good to join existing distributed social network projects and make sure there is some communication between BW and these projects. And actually, I'm trusting elf will keep me (and other BW developers) in touch with new developments :)
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Posted August 30th, 2011 - 3:19 pm by 
from Innsbruck, Austria (Permalink)
from Innsbruck, Austria (Permalink)Drupal with oStatus would mean that everyone could choose where to put his data and could even set up his own instance. That's just how things are with e-mail today. You may choose your mail provider but can nonetheless communicate with everyone who has an account on any e-mail server.
That's not totally distributed but okay for most cases. It's clearly better than having one central entity. Although as long as the team in control is trustworthy even this approach can work (for example Wikipedia).
There are completely distributed networks out there, but I fear there is none major enough to build upon now. I know at least GNUnet, Freenet and the Freedombox.
cheers
m.
That's not totally distributed but okay for most cases. It's clearly better than having one central entity. Although as long as the team in control is trustworthy even this approach can work (for example Wikipedia).
There are completely distributed networks out there, but I fear there is none major enough to build upon now. I know at least GNUnet, Freenet and the Freedombox.
cheers
m.
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Posted September 1st, 2011 - 7:39 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)https://gitorious.org/bewelcome/rox GPLv2
(currently running online)
https://gitorious.org/bw-drupal GPLv2
(new drupal based rewrite in early progress)
(currently running online)
https://gitorious.org/bw-drupal GPLv2
(new drupal based rewrite in early progress)
Posted September 3rd, 2011 - 7:31 pm by 
from Florence, Italy (Permalink)
from Florence, Italy (Permalink)A nice thing should be, from any programmer on this list, to prepare something (capable to run at least on a *IX machine and, if possible on a M$Win one) that read the profile (possibly even from a saved webpage) and store in an open format, ready to be uploaded everywhere.
Posted September 3rd, 2011 - 8:04 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)nice idea, one can also provide a online service where by providing link to public CS profile one can get a export file with data for example as XML
importing makes bigger challenge but developers of platforms which will support it should come up with creative solutions for solving it...
importing makes bigger challenge but developers of platforms which will support it should come up with creative solutions for solving it...
Posted September 3rd, 2011 - 8:48 pm by from Florence, Italy (Permalink)
from Florence, Italy (Permalink)No, you cannot.
To do that throught yourserver would pass some personal data.
We agreed that the profilese are of C$ and CSers, not even yours.
One should then download his page and then on HIS machine perform the conversion.
The problem is more exporting than importing.
The pages (the home and the ones of friends) are made for being displayed, so one have to work a little to extract the pertinent data.
but once done that is trivial reimporting in another database.
To do that throught yourserver would pass some personal data.
We agreed that the profilese are of C$ and CSers, not even yours.
One should then download his page and then on HIS machine perform the conversion.
The problem is more exporting than importing.
The pages (the home and the ones of friends) are made for being displayed, so one have to work a little to extract the pertinent data.
but once done that is trivial reimporting in another database.
Posted September 3rd, 2011 - 9:23 pm by from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)
from Seafield, Isle of Man (Permalink)i thought about public profile data which you would like to share with other people, myself I simply don't put here any data that I don't want to share with everyone...
when it comes to couch requests etc. I don't think someone would like to save tons of pages and than run conversion, if I need to input my password for some script to go and scrape the data I see no problem with using open source webapp hosted by myself or someone who I trust. of course if someone wants can write something that runs on all possible operating systems, myself I would rather do something that runs on linux and than leave it to people to use it themselves or ask their friends who use linux for help
when it comes to importing the complexity comes if we would like to migrate our friendships, references, vouches etc. since you can't import data in my name and vice versa, so here people will need to make some kind of mapping of accounts of their friends from CS with new ones elsewhere. I wouldn't hope that CS will add 'redirect' feature so I can say: 'moved to http://...' =)
when it comes to couch requests etc. I don't think someone would like to save tons of pages and than run conversion, if I need to input my password for some script to go and scrape the data I see no problem with using open source webapp hosted by myself or someone who I trust. of course if someone wants can write something that runs on all possible operating systems, myself I would rather do something that runs on linux and than leave it to people to use it themselves or ask their friends who use linux for help
when it comes to importing the complexity comes if we would like to migrate our friendships, references, vouches etc. since you can't import data in my name and vice versa, so here people will need to make some kind of mapping of accounts of their friends from CS with new ones elsewhere. I wouldn't hope that CS will add 'redirect' feature so I can say: 'moved to http://...' =)
Posted September 3rd, 2011 - 10:10 pm by from Florence, Italy (Permalink)
from Florence, Italy (Permalink)Just one thing that you cannot get without logging: the reference you gave to others, that can be seen only if you search the other person or you log-in.
for the other: just use tha field "my website"
for the other: just use tha field "my website"
