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Alternatives?
Posted December 14th, 2012 - 1:37 am by from New York, United States (Permalink)
I used to be on my b/f's profile but since we're not together I had to make my own. I'm proud to be part of CS but now that I read some of these posts I'm questioning.
Are there any good alternatives? I heard of one called BeWelcome.org and another called Tripping.com. My friend used Tripping.com and liked her host but I have no experience/friends who've used BeWelcome and am curious for input.

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 2:02 am by from Warsaw, Poland (Permalink)
Many people that I know are migrating to BeWelcome...me too...But still not giving up on CS until I see what happens. So many great people met here. But I don't think many things will change in a good way here...unfortunately...

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 7:51 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
Most of the best couchsurfers are already on BeWelcome.org, and say so on their &c$ profiles.

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 4:51 pm from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 14th, 2012 - 6:31 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"when i read the numbers of members i don't see significative growth"

Which numbers are you looking at? The ones on this chart, at its original location at http://www.bewelcome.org/statistics?


Posted December 14th, 2012 - 7:44 pm by from Chicago, United States (Permalink)
For me as a user of Couch$urfing, BeWelcome, and WarmShowers there are frustrations and satisfactions alike in varying degrees. I joined tripping.com at one point out of curiosity but never used or even visited it again. I'm a "dead" profile in that network. Of course, I don't get requests because I'm travelling. I see these things mostly from the perspective of the guest.

Like Uli says (hi Uli!), the migration of a lot of the good CSfers to BW -especially if they are not just curious about BW but appalled by what has happened at CS- has been helping to raise the quality of the average BW profile, but that average is unfortunately still very low quality due to the great number of old, inactive, dead, or empty profiles that need to be weeded out somehow.

My frustration with CS is that there are way too many people now that do not offer a couch but are there simply there to organize and participate in events, often simply partying but also cultural activities, which is all ok, but where does that leave the couch? In CS I also don't like the emphasis on new-fangled tech stuff, new buttons for this or that, restrictions on usage and hoops to jump through. Why don't they keep it plain and simple? All this new stuff only make the pages slower to load, and I've been noticing a lot more bugs, unresponsive or misleading links, etc. However, of course, the basic dissatisfaction I have with CS is the betrayal to the original non-profit spirit.

BeWelcome on the other hand is unnecessarily wary of growth, that is, of promoting its own growth more aggressively because that would lower the quality of the average profile. That's a bit snobbish, I think, though there is some truth to it. At the same time, allowing people to join without actually filling out a minimum of information makes for a lot of empty profiles.

The process of making couch requests is tedious. I sometimes wish I could just click a button on whatever profile I find interesting (like a "wink" or nudge button) and those who might be interested in hosting me would reply, and a dialog would ensue. Instead, I have to write all these messages, more or less standard, but you don't want to sound too much like you're doing copy-paste.

Warmshowers has the advantage of having a reduced or very specilized membership (only cyclists) so the probability that the host will respond and eventually accept the request and extend the hospitality is greater.

So, I still use all three networks, but I really wish BW would reach the critical mass of complete profiles and get rid of empty ones so that I can just forget CS. As it is, it's unfortunately still easier or faster to find host through CS.

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 11:01 pm from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 14th, 2012 - 11:33 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"on "new members" chart it seems that some 600 people joined bw when cs has been sold"

I don't know how you are reading the statistics but it looks more like an increase of 17.000 profiles, or +150%, with a weekly average of over 300 and a huge increase over the past two weeks.

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 11:38 pm by from Belgrade, Serbia (Permalink)
Because C$ became a B company and was sold for a BIG amount of money to a company, I only see and can except for C$ to become even worse, simply because of one thing, one fact: the companies who bought it will certainly want some money back. So, except, sooner or later, advertisements or EVEN paying for some certain options.

For example: it is very popular among organizations and companies that are dealing with marketing and advertisement industry to collect data about people, their behaviour and habits about food, drink, social life... and a lots of other things that you/we are unable to think of. And you might wonder why is that? Simply because it is the most cheapest way for a certain company to reach the people and advertise their products.

Let me try to explain the most basic mechanics: XY company wants to launch a new product so they hire market research agency. Market research agency than collects data on millions of people, so once they gathered all the keywords of the most relevant people targeted, they give the XY company their address, email, phone number, etc., so that XY company contacts directly potential consumers. This is THE MOST cheapest way to promote their product. One of the latest examples that I know of is when Nestle launched thier "low fat" yoghurt somewhere in Brasil.

Have you ever wondered why in shops, markets or shoping malls you are constantly asked to fill in some forms about this or that and than asked to give your personal informations and contacts? Cheap advertisement for capitalist piece of shit.

So, this is how I see the future of C$:
S$ will actively promote it self so a lots of people will join this network just because they will be able to crash onto somebodies couch for free and God knows that all of us love free things. Therefore, this fascist new ToU policy. A lots of psychos, sickos and schizos are excepted as well.

So, the problem is not that a lot of people will join, I mean, more people, its better, for all of us. But more and more people will join C$ one time, without any feel for exchanging culture, habit or whatever, as Ignacio already put it.

The other issue for me, when it comes to C$ is that they are constantly and completely ingoring the peoples protests! Especially those who actually built it.

And when it comes to users, people, I'm dissapointed to see that 95% of them are lacking the will to protest, to raise the voice and to do something drastic to this insolent and arrogant behaviour of C$ owners and founders.

I can only suggest that we go viral. For example: we organize a FB group (even though, I don't have FB page) where we can explain people why C$, once great and beautiful idea, became desecrated and obliterated, and that on certain date we migrate from C$ to BW. We send private messages to all of our friends in contact list and also put it on all of the city and country groups. We have to act. Everything we do here, on this group, talking without acting, are blank shots.

You can read my reson here why I opened BW profile and why I see myself completely migrating there in next half of year or a year: https://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=45507&post=13935810

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 12:10 am from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 12:27 am from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 12:30 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"i don't have a profile on bw"

Why not? It seems like the best way to test drive it and make up your own mind.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 12:29 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
Lost my answer again, have to get used to posts not going through and being lost thanks to these top notch IT people running the site now:

You seem to be looking at weekly signup numbers. There have been several peaks: after the announcement of the "CS conversion", after the changes to the terms of use, and most recently after they made a mess of CS groups.

If you divide the 17.000 or so by approximately 70 weeks you get an average of close to 250 new BW profiles/week. And peaks at 600. Slowly but surely BW is becoming a viable hospitality network even outside of the main locations which I hope won't run out of control through a stupid drive for numbers and stupid press coverage and word of mouth like CS has.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 8:53 am from Venice, Italy
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Posted December 17th, 2012 - 11:21 am by from Girona, Spain (Permalink)
Amen!
Be Welcome! =)

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 10:21 am from Brighton, England
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Posted December 17th, 2012 - 10:50 am by from Brussels, Belgium (Permalink)
What are the ideological lines in hospitality club that you are happier with?

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 7:50 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
Tripping.com is about as dishonest and after money as CS and in addition they heavily promote paid accomodation.

The only genuine hospitality networks I can recommend are Bewelcome.org, and Warmshowers.org if you are a cyclist or enjoy meeting cyclists.

Posted December 14th, 2012 - 8:27 am from London, England
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Posted December 14th, 2012 - 11:14 pm from Venice, Italy
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 3:57 am by from Sharon Springs, United States (Permalink)
BW is not an alternative to CS. It almost completely eurocentric, with a sparse North American or global presence. A quarter century past, AYH/ITH (American/International Youth Hostel) like CS, morphed from its nfp roots by imposing a capitation tax to be collected by "volunteer" hostel operators in order to centralize administration. Protests were immediate, alternatives still-born or perished in infancy. AYH struggled and survived. A few other long-lived volunteer organizations, TD (Travelers Directory)/THE (The Hospitality Exchange) carriied the communal 60's spirit, but petrified for want of youthful progeny.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 8:48 am by from Florence, Italy (Permalink)
BW is less eurocentric than CS is US-centric.
do not consider just the relative numbers on different parts of the world, but the way they operate.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 9:48 am by from Dijon, France (Permalink)
"BW is not an alternative to CS. It almost completely eurocentric, with a sparse North American or global presence."

Seth, this is silly talk. Remember when Yahoo was the dominant search engine, remember when MySpace ruled the social networks?

BW is already a working alternative to CS, even for North Americans, who do most their intercultural traveling outside the US.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 10:32 am from Montcuq, France
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 5:11 pm from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 6:16 pm by from Belgrade, Serbia (Permalink)
That is excatly the reason why I opened BW profile as well and still using C$. I'm getting more and more active on BW, but the thing is that it is a little bit slowlier when it comes to organizing something there.

Anyway, C$ announced that even more changes will take place, so let's what they are having in store. So far nothing good.

It will take some time for people to realise what C$ is becoming and get more active on BW.

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 7:26 pm from Padova, Italy
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 9:45 pm by from Belgrade, Serbia (Permalink)
From my end, I don't really care what newbies are up to. Conspiracy theories, sex, drugs, rnr, drum n bass, sungazing... Whatever. I'm mostly oriented to parties, but I'm also going to a lot of "serious" stuff, as well.
Hell, I'm newbie as well, but, I just want my privacy, somewhat, protected and that it belongs only and exclusively to me! ToU policy is making people only more paranoid, not contrary. I removed all of my pictures just because I don't want to see my face one day on fucking billboard or bus advertisement.

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 12:19 am from London, England
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 12:21 pm from Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 12:42 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
The "economics" criterion doesn't really apply to a non-profit association worthy of that name.

As for "REAL alternative", that depends on what you are looking for, and where. For many people it is not only a real alternative, but already a better one which will only become better while &c$ decays rapidly.

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 1:10 pm from Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 1:30 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
What does it matter if 90% of users who are happy with CS and are not looking for an alternative don't see one in BeWelcome?

Looking at group and place posts it doesn't look like any majority is happy with &cs at the moment, though. Not even a majority of amb evangelists.

When have you last found a couch on cs?

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 2:08 pm from Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 2:21 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"at Lille (where on BW I did not even manage to find any locals having been online within the recent week)"

I don't believe activity on the website is a good criterion for predicting if a host will offer hospitality when asked, especially on BeWelcome. As BeWelcome is more geared towards hospitality than social networking and forum posting, most members won't feel a need to log in unless they receive a hosting request or are traveling themselves. And the chattiest forum members don't necessarily make the best host. The best way to find out is to try.

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 2:36 pm by from Dijon, France (Permalink)
"an average user looks for a place to stay on his/her vacations once or twice a year ... maybe accepts some couchrequests if he gets any ... ... but does not care about CS in his everyday life"

So an average user is mostly a guest, not a host, and does not participate in community. This may be true, but as CS is increasingly dominated by this "average user", and the non-average users go elsewhere, CS enters into a downwards spiral. Is the newbie reservoir unlimited?

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 2:26 pm by from Dijon, France (Permalink)
BW, with the transfer of some of CS's most valuable contributors, may be able to exploit some of the factors which made CS grow rapidly. Local groups exist because individuals invest themselves. BW has inherited some of those individuals, but some of them are burnt out on CS and won't be as active on BW.

One of the biggest keys to CS's development, I believe, was the arcane mysterious guru-type central management. BW will never really have this, because it is basically an open organization. People were motivated in CS to get into the heart, to give their all in hopes of entering the inner circle. To a lesser extent this was also present at the local level (as in any organization, particularly volunteer ones).

CS seems to have lost this guru-hierarchy structure. It remains to be seen if management can recreate it in part (for example at the ambassador level), but in a corporation, there is no possibility of volunteers becoming central heroes.

CS has also lost much of its credibility in the "changing the world" category. And even if "a majority" of members is more interested in their personal agenda, volunteers need some sort of carrot. CS has lost some of its carrots. People who contribute heavily to an organization - besides being motivated by the personal desire for social contact - also want to think they are contributing to the real betterment of something.

So while BW cannot (thankfully) hope to exploit the guru-hierarchy card, it is now better placed than CS to exploit the altruistically-motivated volunteer card.

That means for example that someone like me, who was one of my local community's most active CS hosts, will be much more likely to offer lodging to someone through BW than I ever was through CS.

For the moment, CS management doesn't seem to really understand how it got where it is (except they will continue to play the fake "socially responsible" and "change the world" cards).

Whether CS management will be able to escape its present self-destructive technocratic phase is dubious, but possible. They hired a geek who has a flawed record in creating technical products that connected with the public as CEO, showing they think the needs are not human, but computer. For the moment they seem to have an infinite capacity to damage the CS experience, sometimes with mechanisms they still seem to believe are positive, like Open Couch Request, which has so damaged the self-regulating CS mechanism. They ardently defend the idea of changing stuff all the time, also known as throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks.

If the investors really do care about CS success (and not just in blocking the market to maintain AirBnB's position, for example), as businessmen (and I use the term MAN because they are all men) their instinct will be to find a new CEO soon.

Whether BW can occupy the space that CS has left empty for users and activists will in part depend on how much negative publicity BW gets from pseudo-realists who believe Atari will always rule the computer game market, and IBM will make 90% of the world's computers and that CS also has such dominance that a BW future (like that of Apple and Microsoft) is completely impossible. Personally I got my first Mac in '84, and have been mostly satisfied to use a computer that seldom gets more than 10% of an market. And just as I am doing with my Mac, running any PC software I need from inside the Mac OS, I am also trying to run any existing CS advantages from inside the BW OS.

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 3:01 pm by from Florence, Italy (Permalink)
You have to take in account also the following fact:
- on BW since the beginning of the year have been an unwritten spontaneously agreed ruile not to advertise a lot the community among people on CS that one do not consider "very good". Asking one "register on BW and i will host you" is easy. But often these people after that time never log in again (sometimes neither on CS).
Having 15000 active mebers on 30000 account is phisiologic, having 50000 on 200000 is worse.
CS is more or less at a 25% level .
Having a lower base with better quality would be better.
If you can trust that the people you send a request will reply you (of course not necessarily yes) it would mean that you need to write less requests, so unless you do not find anyone in a certain place, the result are similar.
About the not active in last week : since the group activity on BW is less prominent, and posting on groups is, if you have properly configured your e-mail settings, the only thing that requires to log on the site, less group activity mean less logins.
People just wait a request.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 11:24 am by from Girona, Spain (Permalink)
Again Amen! PoisonJJJ
Be Welcome ! =)

Posted December 15th, 2012 - 5:00 pm by from Sharon Springs, United States (Permalink)
ldep,
i also recall when commodore and atari were the best selling computers in the world. north american/usa ic travel? all u need do is walk a city block! cheers,
seth

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 1:56 pm from Palermo, United States
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Posted December 15th, 2012 - 10:31 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
Seth, where would you like to travel, or whom would you like to host?

Please do join us Euro-centrics, to increase our chances to find a host in the New World.

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 8:10 am from Lisboa, Portugal
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 3:19 pm from Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted December 16th, 2012 - 3:24 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"so as CS became a corporation - and will never return to any idealistic NGO status - the remaining thing to do is to prevent them from making profit!"

CS mis-management is doing a pretty good job at that, but of course we can lend them a hand ;-)

"and therefore it does not take just a "better" website for that 1 or 2 %
or "very good" couchsurfers - but to make the majority (of active
users) move to another website ;)"


It depends on the activity. Some active users are more a cost than a profit factor ;-)

Posted December 16th, 2012 - 6:21 pm by from Chicago, United States (Permalink)
"....to make the majority (of active users) move to another website "

Well, I don't think we are or should be necessarily or primarily interested in making CS fail. At first I think we were all kind of idealistic and hopeful, thinking that protesting, organizing, brainstorming and discussing might make a difference, even considered it possible to recover or revert to some previous state or direction. However, I think we've now all more or less understood that not only is the sinking boat not salvageable, why would you want to bring on people who would lower the quality you are aiming at?

The "average active user" of CS has become is really no longer of interest to BW. The "Couch" in CS is more or less gone, so "snatching" the majority of active users from CS would counterproductive. For BW being successful should not mean (as for the current CS) growing numbers, growing activities, growing groups, growing, growing, growing. BW does indeed need to reach a critical mass of good high quality average profiles in each city to function, but it wouldn't really need to be so high. It's a matter of quality vs quantity.

I wonder if the empty profiles in BW will ever disappear by themselves. That's a big problem.

Actually, on its name alone BW is or could be more inclusive, not being limited by the word "couch." BW could eventually grown into a welcoming network in general; mostly for hosting or accommodation but also for orientation and support for those wanting to settle into new areas, cities, countries.

In the USA I used meetup.com for certain things, CS for couches and some activities, other websites for dating (invariably and miserably failing), and so on. I think you can't and do not need to be all things to everyone. However, I recognize there is a certain mystique or romaticism to having a community and acting effectively and beyond a restricted scope for and within that community. For example, if I wanted to sell something in Chicago, not only would I go to Craigslist, I would also offer it to the CS community. I actually felt more of a satisfaction if I could sell it to one of the closer community (CS or meetup.com) than to the public at large (Craigslist), even at a lower selling price. I guess this has to do with less "anonymity" or something of the sort.

I keep hearing this thing about "deciding" whether to be on one network or the other. You can be on both or several of them. For heaven's sake (ha ha, there's a pun) it's not like some religions that will chastise you for participating in different rites. You can belong to all of them. Naturally, in the end, searching for a couch can be very time consuming, so you will naturally tend (unless you're a masochist) toward the one that works best for you, the path of least resistance. Like I mentioned recently, CS is giving me some frustrations in many ways now (resistance), and BW in others. I am waiting (and trying to convince come people) for BW to grow more meaty members, and get rid of the bony ones.

@David..."CS seems to have lost this guru-hierarchy structure." Well, I think one place where you can see some kind of hierarchy or leading (sometimes censoring or controlling figures, which derive importance for their persons through their actions) is the little groups or cliques that build up on some discussion or city groups. The "moderators" often zealously persecute and chop down unsuspecting or member's posts/behaviour, often arbitrarily or subjectively. I've had to deal with this kind of crap in many cities, with me taking the underdog's side, etc. And funnily enough, these dynamics even reache a point of virtual "nationalism" with some thinking, I mean, actually saying that you don't belong here because you don't live in the city or do not have immediate plans to go there so you shouldn't be posting, etc! Anyway, these "leaders" have their groupies, too.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 11:16 am from Sisimiut, Greenland
This member profile has been deactivated

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 11:48 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
""I wonder if the empty profiles in BW will ever disappear by themselves. That's a big problem."


yes, it is"

The existance of empty profiles is only a nuisance because you cannot see that information without clicking on the profile link in search results, or sort profiles by avtivity or completeness. I'll lobby in favor of having that improved.

"I planning trips in Russia often. Last year some ~400 members, 1/2 in MSK and SPb, so basically useless"

Now almost 1000, so 2 1/2 times as useful ;-)

Things are improving. BW is very usable in many places, although not enough. But posting that BW is too small to be useful and that people should wait is not exactly helpful.

http://www.bewelcome.org/places

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 2:04 pm by from Chicago, United States (Permalink)
"Things are improving. BW is very usable in many places, although not enough. But posting that BW is too small to be useful and that people should wait is not exactly helpful."

I agree 100%!

It's be great if the empty profiles did not appear on searches. I believe the only reason those profiles exist is that people need to join in order to get to explore the site meaningfully, but then they don't use it but their profile remains. Right?

Cristina, I encourage you to join BW with a relatively full profile and possibly join or start some activities in your area to let the other members there know you are there; that will create synergies.

As you have seen, many of us are disenchanted with CS. BW is the way to go. It's more modest but that's a virtue, too.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 2:24 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
On CS profiles don't appear in search results if they haven't been logged in for a number of months, and advanced users can sort results by last login. I'll suggest to BW something similar for the next version of the website which is currently being prepared, and repeat my earlier suggestion to show more information alongside the search results. At least at BW they are really listening and care about the user experience, and if a democratic vote doesn't get in the way pragmatic solutions often get implemented quickly when the programming resources are available.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 2:59 pm by from Chicago, United States (Permalink)
Thanks, Uli. As always, I admire and appreciate your commitment and active involment.

By the way, I don't think not having been logged in recently is necessarily a negative sign, or that it should be used as a main critirion, especially if there is a message notification or forwarding system turned on.

For example, if a potential host has the account settings so that messages get forwarded to the regular email address, maybe they would not log in just to erase those messages, and so, although they might be a good potential host for other users, under that system (of suppressing profiles with prolonged low login rates) they would in fact be condemned to not being found by other potentially good guests.

I think it's important to show some indication (like CS has, on each mini-profile or short excepts in the profile search results) that tells if there is a photo, and at least some text in the different sections. You could have a little bar (like cell phones have for showing signal strength) showing the degree of completedness of that particular profile, e.g., 20%, 70%, etc.

And the people with empty profiles should be sent a last reminder to complete their profile or let it be archived or deleted. Anyway, of course, these issues should be discussed on BW, maybe not here.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 3:05 pm by from Girona, Spain (Permalink)
Yes Ignacio, you are right: this topics better to discuss in BW, I fully agree. Here they are not much ussefull.

Btw, yesterday, when I lost one guest, I hold the post in BW
and Contact CS the following:


GUEST LOST:
Hi, what can I do if my surfer is lost? He has gone this morning to walk around, and he is not still here, is going be dark, and my area is in or near a forest.
He is from Riga, Latvia, named ****, 29 year-old-man and he arrives yesterday. Cell doesn't answer.

Thanks
firefighters, forest rangers and police are alerted. :(


Only BW people answer me some, CS contact I still waiting for its answer. :P



Posted December 17th, 2012 - 3:14 pm by from Paris, France (Permalink)
"I think it's important to show some indication (like CS has, on each
mini-profile or short excepts in the profile search results) that tells
if there is a photo"


The main photo and the summary info is already there on BW, but the summary should contain a bit more information so that you don't waste too much time clicking on links to irrelevant profiles.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 7:07 pm by from Cork, Ireland (Republic of) (Permalink)
My ten cents

https://n-1.cc/pages/view/1538259/social-communities-comunidades-sociales

& also
https://n-1.cc/pages/view/1538261/online-social-networks-directory-listado-de-redes-sociales-online

Posted December 27th, 2012 - 12:14 am by from Paris, France (Permalink)
I am happy to report back that many of the problems raised with the old search system on BeWelcome have been addressed with the new one:

www.bewelcome.org/searchmembers/mapoff

- most relevant profiles first

- almost no empty profiles showing up,

- many (almost too many) advanced search options and sort orders possible

- coming soon: a suggestion list of countries, regions, cities,
places when typing something in the text search field (before the search
is actually sent).

these results are sorted by the following sort order:

1. members who have logged in at least once in the last year are ranked before inactive members

2. members who have the profile summary field not empty are ranked before those who have that field empty

3. people who want to host are ranked first, those who can host "maybe"(the default value) come later

4. last logged in are ranked first
Give it a try.

Posted December 17th, 2012 - 7:58 pm by from Berlin, Germany (Permalink)
There is now this group of people moving from C$ to BW:
https://www.couchsurfing.org/group.html?gid=59753

Posted December 18th, 2012 - 7:21 pm by from Girona, Spain (Permalink)
Thanks! :)
Be Welcome! =)
luisa