Location: Politics/Government >> Libertarians
Login for full access to Couchsurfing Groups. Not a member yet? Join our community!

Gun politics
Posted December 18th, 2012 - 11:21 am by from Antalya, Turkey (Permalink)
After recent horrible mass shootings, people keep talking about this subject. Here's an article of LP:

what do you think? if we keep civilians armed, will this prevent mass shootings and total of deaths by firearms?
Should there be ownership restrictions or not? Will banning firearms completely prevent anything?


Posted December 22nd, 2012 - 5:46 am by from San Isidro, Argentina (Permalink)
You literally took the topic out of my fingertips - i had just logged in with the idea of opening a discussion thread on this. :-)

Despite the media hyperbole, mass shootings seem to be no more frequent today than before, even despite the fact than in the US gun ownership among civilians has surpassed the staggering number of 300 million firearms. Reason.com has a good piece on this on their website.

No one can really prevent mass shootings, but having armed civilians around who are willing to confront aggressors certainly helps lower the death toll.

From what I gather from news reports, when confronted by armed force, be it police or armed civilians, most of these aggressors either surrender (think Anders Breivik, the mass shooter from Norway) or turn the guns on themselves (think Columbine or Virginia Tech) rather than be caught alive.

The average police response time varies from country to country, but no one will be sooner on site than the victim, and every minute saves lives.

Gun control, on the other hand, has proven ineffective time and time again. Thougher gun laws make little to no difference, as they will be invariably violated by the criminally oriented. We have laws against murder, and that hasnt stopped any shooter. They have gun laws in the US, which are already rountinely violated by shooters.

If not, check out the death tolls from shooting massacres in Europe - according to John Lott, the per shooting death toll seems to be higher than in the US, a fact often overlooked in the media.

Ever wonder why these shootings usually tend to happen in so called "gun free zones"? Shooters are mentally unstable, but not stupid. You don't usually see such massacres at shooting ranges, militia camps, police stations or military bases (in the Ft. Hood attack, military personell were not allowed to carry firearms).

Posted January 17th, 2013 - 5:34 pm by from Utica, United States (Permalink)
I am firmly in the pro gun camp and my views match FREDCHENGB's. That being said, the discussion on if we should restirct weapons to the mentally unstable is a valid one. Of course one runs into the issue of who should decide what defines unstable. Futhermore, it has the potential to be used as a political weapon much the same way the Civil Rights act has. Comments?

Chris Sleys

Posted January 19th, 2013 - 3:22 pm by from Haan, Germany (Permalink)
I'd like to draw your attention to something different, I think the schools are terrible and a major reason for the prevalence of violence. Please read and share this article by C. B. Thompson: http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2012-winter/new-abolition.asp

Posted January 19th, 2013 - 4:41 pm by from Utica, United States (Permalink)
While I agree that our entire eduction system, from kindergarten to college, is an antiquated and broken system. It is not the cause of all mental issues in the world. There will always be unstable people and that is the only form of gun control I am willing to consider.

As for the schools as a whole, I would recommend checking out TED talks for some great ideas on a new education system. In essence I see a system similar to Coursera.org being the future of education.


Post removed.
Posted January 26th, 2013 - 2:36 am by from Sharon Springs, United States (Permalink)
This post has been removed by the user.

Deleted Post
Posted January 26th, 2013 - 2:50 am by from Sharon Springs, United States (Permalink)
One important change might be to rename "public school" as "government school" for minors. This removes gloss and misrepresentation. When schooling is coerced and institutionalized, it is appropriate to term it "incarceration."
Hence the "victims" of school violence/shootings/bombs/etc are a "captive" population. One largely undiscussed issue is adaptive student training for self and group-preservation.

Posted January 26th, 2013 - 10:23 am by from Utica, United States (Permalink)
Agreed. I'm not entirly sure what you ment by the last sentence? If its related to self-learning and group behavoir here is a really interesting TED talk.



Posted January 26th, 2013 - 7:52 pm by from Sharon Springs, United States (Permalink)
Your cited Ted talk is full of spirit and aspiration. I was part of an alternative street school in Mass during the early 70's ("Trout Fishing in America"); while communal living exposed the strengths and weakness of group process on individual liberty.