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Obama Health Care
Posted August 16th, 2009 - 11:19 am by from Bolingbrook, United States (Permalink)
The greatest assault on our liberty in the USA in our history?

Many of us in the USA are scared to death of the government taking
over such a crucial part of our lives

There are a lot of Europeans on CS that have government run health care
that have essentially grown up with it

Tell is what it is like. We really want to know

Mark

Posted August 16th, 2009 - 8:57 pm by from San Salvador, El Salvador (Permalink)
Mark, they are not giving out something for nothing. Europeans and Canadians have always paid out high taxes to support their Health Care systems, a friend of mine in ottawa needs to wait months to see a specialist, his G.P. gives him samples of the meds he requires now.
Under teh plan, which will cover 12-13 million ILLEGAL immigrants in the US, there will be too few Doctors for too few people.
I am a US citizen ex pat abroad, retired, when I get an infection I go to Pharmacy and buy the antibiotic I require, with no prescription, my other meds for my disabilty are available, I've only been to Doctor twice for ear infections last year, I take care of myself. What I don't like..I have Cable...is how Putrid Pelosi and the far left elite Obama crowd are talking down to the Health Care Protestors, I'm not a fan of Bush policies, either but when the far left "Bush Haters" and Code Pink disrupted things, where was teh mainstream media then? MSNBC is the worst. I watch a lot of Fox News. Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, Huckabee and Geraldo Rivera on the "liberal" end.
Please, Europeans and Canadians, I lived in Canada and Europe, I'm multilingual, my Mom was born in Europe, not stupid, no "lectures" please, just explain what you like and or dislike in your system and remember your country probably does not have 300,000,000 people!

Posted August 17th, 2009 - 1:37 am by from Eugene, United States (Permalink)
It is another incremental step towards the globalization of communitarianism- nationalize every industry in the name of humanitarianism until we realize that we've given up every last bit of liberty.
The people in this country are enraged about the promises that Obama has broken already since his inauguration. They are protesting in town hall meetings, which parts of the media are calling "unconsitutional" and "Nazism."
There are no Nazis involved, and disagreeing with the government is our constitutional right and duty.

Posted August 17th, 2009 - 7:43 am from Catania, Italy
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Posted August 22nd, 2009 - 6:31 pm by from Mechelen, Belgium (Permalink)
First a personal opinion:
I love the system we have here in Belgium: people are free to make their choices about what care they want, the state makes it affordable for everyone. Sure, we pay quite high taxes as in the rest of Europe but a system that provides decent health care and a good education for everybody has a certain price. I am willing to accept this.

The government also doesn't run the health care in the way that they organize everything: doctors for example are not paid a salary by to government.

I don't know anybody who had to wait for medical care, in fact foreigners come to Belgium to have surgery done because of the high standards. We have some other things that are quite "strange" to other people: unless you object to it, everybody in Belgium is considered a donor when he dies.

Health expenditure per capita (PPP US$) was the highest in the world (6096 dollars), while life expectancy is only 29th in the world. With an infant mortality rate of 6 per 1000 the US is also in the 30rd place. (figures: http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/)

I think when thought through well, socialised health care will benefit the US.

Gerrit, Belgium

Posted August 22nd, 2009 - 7:47 pm by from Szczecin, Poland (Permalink)
2 things

it MUST be very well thought out or it will be like the UK and everyone should be sonsidered a donor unless they opt out

Posted August 29th, 2009 - 11:49 pm from Wroclaw, Poland
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Posted August 29th, 2009 - 11:16 pm from Wroclaw, Poland
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Posted August 30th, 2009 - 7:42 pm by from San Salvador, El Salvador (Permalink)
Bardzo Dobrze tntraveler

My ex Wife was a nurse in the exclusive Hospital for Top Communist Party members of Govt. when I met her in 1982 w Warszawie, when she slipped in 1983, and broke her arm, picked her up at the State run Hospital, gloomy, dirty and understaffed in comparision to the modern state of art Hospital for the priviliged, and yes in Cuba, aside from emergency care, foreigners do have to pay in "currencies" for elective surgery or treatments, meds, etc. about 50-70% the cost of top private US clincs.

Politicans, Corporations, Pharmaceutical companies, Labor Unions, etc. are telling people what they think they should hear in US.

At least we all don't march in lockstep, would never surrender my US 1st Amendment Rights for "free medical care".

Posted August 29th, 2009 - 11:32 pm from Wroclaw, Poland
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Posted September 28th, 2009 - 9:54 pm by from Bolingbrook, United States (Permalink)
I have catastrophic insurance, $10,000 deductible, if I break my arm
I pay for it. Previously I was paying $15,000/year for a family of five
and spending $800.00 at the doctor. didn't make sense, now I pay
$4500/year.

The problem, is Obama's plan will require that I pay $15,000 to subsidize
the uninsured. 85% of americans like their insurance. Why not simply
devise a plan to help the few that don't have insurance. Why screw the
vast majority

Posted October 1st, 2009 - 7:53 pm from Wroclaw, Poland
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Posted March 23rd, 2010 - 5:40 pm by from Honolulu, United States (Permalink)
I think the question is not 'why healthcare reform?', but 'why a federal bill?'. One of the major reasons the USA can't be compared to countries in Europe is because of sheer size and volume; laws made through the national government are so far out of the people's hands that they become cumbersome, intrusive, and tired by the time they are passed-- and then cannot be changed.

What we need are statewide systems.

The states have the power to provide us with financial assistance and with insurance company regulations. All solutions suggested can be mandated in each state, the difference being that statewide bills can be passed more quickly and easily, have less opportunity for corruption and error, and can be altered and protested without too much trouble. A federal bill, on the other hand, is a looming monster.

Look at the Federal Reserve. Look at Social Security. Even the FDA is severely corrupt at this point! Does anyone really think that giving more money and power to our government is a good idea? If we were to take all of the tax money that is wasted, pocketed by politicians, and 'lost', we would have enough money in one year to provide health insurance to every citizen without anyone paying an extra cent! Think on that.


The bill is insane. Mandated health insurance alone is enough to boil my blood-- this is not in the place of our government to dictate.

That's my 2 cents.

Posted March 23rd, 2010 - 5:44 pm by from Honolulu, United States (Permalink)
granted, I think I'm preaching to the choir here on the Libertarian forum... ;)

Posted March 29th, 2010 - 1:31 pm by from New York, United States (Permalink)
Baucus admits what we knew all along. Obamacare is just some wealth redistribution scheme.

http://origin.thefoxnation.com/max-baucus/2010/03/26/watch-baucus-says-obamacare-helps-redistribute-wealth?page=1


Posted September 29th, 2009 - 6:28 am from Albany, United States
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Posted March 29th, 2010 - 10:08 pm by from Post Falls, United States (Permalink)
Initially upset, but now, I think, "when the ship is sinking, what does it matter how the deck chairs are arranged?"

Obamacare from a practical standpoint may turn out to be no worse that Medicare or Medicaid, which are bad enough but we can live with them. It's not the practical arguments that matter. No one country has the "best health care system". The needs of health care consumers vary. What one persons deems "the best" is not best for all.

Because of this, as a matter of principle the basis of government run anything is coercion. Governments impose whatever system those in power deem the greatest good for the greatest number--so long as it doesn't adversely affect them. The minority (or in the case of PelosiCare, the majority)are forced into submission.

There are problems in health care. The problems (many which are the result of government involvement)can either be solved through voluntary cooperative agreements between consumers and providers, or through coercion. Government solutions are always coercive.

I actually expect to be at least financially well off under this new regime. It doesn't matter. The sacrifice of freedom is not worth it.

Posted July 6th, 2010 - 5:49 pm by from Eisenhuettenstadt, Germany (Permalink)
In Germany everyone has a health insurance. No one can be without. An I really don´t know anyone, who criticise that!

And it is not socialism at all! It it were, whole europe would live in socialism - absolute nonsense!!!!
I had to live in a socialistic country and I tell you socialism is something different!

We´ve got public and private insurances. If you earn enough you can choose a private one. If not you can choose between 150 public ones. In the public ones you have to pay around 7.5% of your wage. If you don´t earn enough the government pays subsidies.

Whats the problem? It is an act of solidarity. Never in recent history I heared a political party wanting to finish this system. Do we want to leave people without any insurance, so they can´t pay the hospital? We fly to the moon, then we can guarantee a minimum of food and healthcare to everyone!

Don´t mix up liberty and egoism! Even animals help each other!


Posted July 6th, 2010 - 7:28 pm by from Starbuck, United States (Permalink)
Well put Clemens.

I also agree with Raye that working at the state level is better than one federal plan.

Posted July 17th, 2010 - 10:47 pm by from North Hollywood, United States (Permalink)
Wow very interesting comments and observations. If any one would be interested the Cato institute just did a piece on Obama care. It says it is 60 plus pages but about 40 pages of that are footnotes. It is really interesting and I thought a very informative read. Here is the link.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11961

Cheers

Posted July 17th, 2010 - 10:59 pm by from North Hollywood, United States (Permalink)
In the Cato report one can read little nuggets like the following:

House speaker Nancy Pelosi once famously
told us that “We have to pass the bill so you
can find out what’s in it.”

That is just bad leadership!

Posted July 20th, 2010 - 6:07 pm by from San Salvador, El Salvador (Permalink)
None of them read it......

None of them know how to implement it.....

None of them have common sense!!!!!!!


There is someone on CS who called me a "racist" without proof, I by mistake had an open conversation on a thread not 100% politically correct

All some people know how to do is smear, wish I could take some of their "Masters" and "PhDs" (Piled high and deep) use em for tiolet paper.

Posted April 16th, 2012 - 2:38 pm by from Grafton, United States (Permalink)
The Cato Ins. may not be as liberty oriented that one would believe. Their publications may also be bias.

I would suggest that Cato be contacted and asked the same type of questions as New Hampshire State Representative Mark Warden's
" How do we get on Cato.org's radar? They should send somebody to PF2012. I like what I heard from Malou Innocent on their podcast.
And they have this great URL: http://www.libertarianism.org/"

and read the replies from NH liberty activists to his post at http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/FSPDoers/

Posted April 16th, 2012 - 2:26 pm by from Grafton, United States (Permalink)
The greatest assault? Or the latest?

Hi Mark, there may be a lot that is not in the media of people and their state legislatures coming together over the Federal refusal to recognize individual and state rights.
Search " New Hampshire Liberty" and Free State Project and share with your communities and friends what you find interesting with the Liberty Activists happenings in NH.

Posted December 2nd, 2012 - 6:49 am from New York, United States
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Posted December 14th, 2012 - 7:39 pm by from Southlake, United States (Permalink)
The worse part about the so called " Health Care Reform " is that it does not accomplish anything for health care . Instead it only focuses on insurance policies mandated by government .

Since insurance is the main reason why the price of health care is so expensive , why more of it ? It's sad that not only will the price of health care continue to rise more than ever , but the quality will most probably suffer as well .

The main reason for the plan was to transfer income from the private sector to the government .